[T2] pilot bearing and main seal

[jkfoster]

I've tried the grease trick and not had luck. Those I've talked to say sometimes it works.....Sometimes not. Â I've remove them carefully with a small chisel or punch by driving one edge of the ring towards the middle of the circle. Otherwise an actual pilot bearing puller works amazingly. You can even pop out a good pilot bearing without damaging it. The tool costs something like 60-40. I just borrow one from a local shop.
I bad pilot bearing can take out the main seal. I've never had any issue pulling the main seal. They always came out with relative ease using a flat head screw driver and levering off the center rather then trying to drive it between the outside edge of the seal and the case.  I have discovered deep gouges in the case from other people's efforts. If it is deep I like to clean it well and use a wee bit of jb weld to fill the void. Then sand it smooth. 
Jason Foster


-------- Original message --------
From: type2-request at type2.com 
Date: 11/07/2016  2:00 PM  (GMT-06:00) 
To: type2 at type2.com 
Subject: type2 Digest, Vol 42, Issue 5 


Today's Topics:

   1. Re: @&^%$$ oil leak still there -update (c.dreike)
   2. Pilot bearing (Dave Gillingham)
   


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2016 13:30:12 -0800
From: "c.dreike" <c.dreike at verizon.net>
To: type2 at type2.com
Subject: Re: [T2] @&^%$$ oil leak still there -update
Message-ID: <35eca132-7428-507a-a2dd-b3dfc5ef36a6 at verizon.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

As for refinishing the shaft with sandpaper and steel wool, I would 
further polish using Flitz or Simichrome or other polishing compound 
that will result in a mirror finish. I have used 1000 and 2000 grit 
paper and then used 1 or even .2 micron diamond compound to finish 
shafts for a good seal.

Chris


On 11/6/2016 6:47 AM, MUTS wrote:
>
>Â Â Â  Researched the seal seating issue, mostly on the Samba, Bob Hoover 
> blog (he died in 2010) $ some YouTube.  The seal is to be put in all 
> the way according to most of the advice, since if put in only flush, 
> it will ride on the wider part and edge can burn? Fully seated it will 
> stay square.  The early seal drivers did push the seal flush 
> (beetles?) but the later ones sunk it in- and was advised for type 4 
> (which is like the type2)?  I made a seal pusher from an electrical 
> coverplate with the 5 holes for flywheel drilled in.  The seal can be 
> driven in with old seal.
>Â Â Â Â Â  The best way to remove the seal I have learned is to use a large 
> bent prybar 1/2" wide and using outer edge of seal area as fulcrum, 
> pry out the seal.  This one came out pretty easily- it was the orange 
> German one- may have shrunk? It only had about 10mi rotation and 
> looked ok.  I cannot recall putting any oil or grease on backside of 
> flywheel as is reccommended.
>Â Â Â  I cleaned things yesterday and noticed 2 things- there is some 
> marking of the case seal surface due to past seal pull attempts. I 
> cleaned up some high spots that looked like transfer of some metal.  
> The flywheel I believe was a used replacement when I went to a larger 
> trans and needed a bigger flywheel/clutch and starter. It worked fine 
> for years.  It is not "mirror smooth" in the seal area- I am trying to 
> sandpaper it and polish with steel wool. This engine has 220K miles on 
> the never split case, but heads, rod bearings, were redone 60K ago.  I 
> did remove the shims and felt the thrust bearing as Nyssa turned the 
> crank side to side- felt no movement.  In my reading, high oil 
> pressure on the seal can come from excessive end play, blockage of 
> return hole you see behind the flywheel mount, or blockage in return 
> system by excessive sealer chipping off, especially silicone RTV- also 
> stuck pressure relief valve?
>Â Â Â  Loss of power/slipping clutch is why I pulled the engine over a 
> year ago, and I did see oil on clutch.  Don't recall it leaking onto 
> the driveway.   Replaced it, along with seal, and the woes started- I 
> wonder still if something else is leaking (galley plugs?-but looks 
> like clean original rtv around the plugs and back of flywheel was oily 
> as if leak started int he center, not from a plug.).
> MUTSÂ  = Michael's Ultimate Thumb Saver oboe, clarinet support
> 93 Chevy Roadtrek 210P
> 78 VW Westfalia Camper
>
> _______________________________________________
> type2 mailing list
> type2 at type2.com
> https://www.type2.com/lists/type2/listinfo



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2016 00:12:06 +0000
From: Dave Gillingham <dave at coronado-realty.com>
To: "type2 at type2.com" <type2 at type2.com>
Subject: [T2] Pilot bearing
Message-ID: <0699D989-1D51-4F92-85B7-733BDA6A3049 at coronado-realty.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Has anybody every used the grease or bread technique to remove a pilot bearing from a type 1 engine?  I am getting set to give the grease method a try, but was hoping for some encouragement:)

Dave
73 Panel
71 Campmobile
CORONADO, Ca

Sent from my iPad

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2016 19:47:30 -0500
From: Bob Pratt <ka1dza at verizon.net>
To: type2 at type2.com
Subject: [T2] Rust, Noise, Heat
Message-ID: <2403472D-96C5-4342-A0FB-F1E53499194B at verizon.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Has anyone attempted to try the changes found at http://www.type2.com/library/heat/Engine.html?
Now that Myles is back on the road and the New England weather is changing, I am looking into doing something about the noise and lack of heat.
Does anyone on the list have any thoughts about using Great Stuff spray insulation?
Again, thanks for any insight.

Bob


------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2016 22:05:34 -0500
From: Bob Pratt <ka1dza at verizon.net>
To: volknstein <volknstein at yahoo.com>
Cc: type2 at type2.com
Subject: Re: [T2] Rust, Noise, Heat
Message-ID: <EB876259-1CED-434A-BC45-88CE775420A9 at verizon.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=utf-8

Thanks for the comments David.

Bob

> On Nov 6, 2016, at 8:04 PM, volknstein <volknstein at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> I tried using the stuff. The stuff is evil in my opinion. It gets everywhere, does nothing for rust prevention, and is a clean up nightmare. I thought I could use a razor to shave if the unwanted foam. It is very hard to cut, sticks to everything you dont want it to and pops off of the areas where you want it. There are better sound deadening and insulating  products out there in my opinion.
> 
> David Kelly
> 1968 VēDubaru Bus
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
> 
> 
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Bob Pratt <ka1dza at verizon.net> 
> Date: 11/6/16 7:47 PM (GMT-05:00) 
> To: type2 at type2.com 
> Subject: [T2] Rust, Noise, Heat 
> 
> Has anyone attempted to try the changes found at http://www.type2.com/library/heat/Engine.html?
> Now that Myles is back on the road and the New England weather is changing, I am looking into doing something about the noise and lack of heat.
> Does anyone on the list have any thoughts about using Great Stuff spray insulation?
> Again, thanks for any insight.
> 
> Bob
> _______________________________________________
> type2 mailing list
> type2 at type2.com
> https://www.type2.com/lists/type2/listinfo


------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2016 19:18:50 -0800
From: "c.dreike" <c.dreike at verizon.net>
To: type2 at type2.com
Subject: Re: [T2] Rust, Noise, Heat
Message-ID: <20fcd602-be2c-7054-e7a6-76e00d071bbc at verizon.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

Bob,
I placed 2 layers of Dynamat in my rear hatch and filled it with Great 
Stuff. The counterbalance springs now just barely hold up the hatch when 
fully open.  The Great Stuff sticks like a bugger to everything and 
would be difficult to remove. Keep in mind that it expands like mad. The 
rear hatch now closes with a satisfying Thud!
  I managed to buy a whole role of the NASA insulation from the 
manufacturer years ago and used that all over inside my bus on top of 
dynamat. The key here is to prevent any steel surface from getting wet 
and staying so over any long period as rust will develop. Any bare steel 
or painted steel surface is prone to having condensation develop on it 
at night or during cold weather. (Think warm bodies and steamy breath.) 
The Great Stuff should seal out moisture and prevent condensation. The 
linked paper mentions coating everything with Cool Patch which would do 
the same. I'm sure you read the paper so you know what the various 
layers of "gunk and stuff" are supposed to do. My bus is somewhat 
quieter than it was before I installed all the  "stuff", however still 
quite a noise box on the freeway. Maybe something to do with the wood 
paneled camper resonating and bouncing noise all over the place. Padded 
panels in the driver compartment made a noticeable difference in the 
noise level up front. BTW all my doors have Dynamat on the interior with 
NASA insulation filling the voids. As I have a garage queen I did not 
seal up the panels with plastic sheeting.

I live in Southern California so I'm not so worried about cold weather 
and a working heater.

Somewhere I have a print out of the original paper before it was dropped 
from it original place on the internet. Nice to see that the web site 
was resurrected via the Way Back Machine. Not sure, but I think the 
photos are no longer full sized. Interesting to read it again after all 
these years.

Chris
64DD Kamper Kit

On 11/6/2016 4:47 PM, Bob Pratt wrote:
> Has anyone attempted to try the changes found at http://www.type2.com/library/heat/Engine.html?
> Now that Myles is back on the road and the New England weather is changing, I am looking into doing something about the noise and lack of heat.
> Does anyone on the list have any thoughts about using Great Stuff spray insulation?
> Again, thanks for any insight.
>
> Bob
> _______________________________________________
> type2 mailing list
> type2 at type2.com
> https://www.type2.com/lists/type2/listinfo



------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2016 19:35:13 -0800
From: "c.dreike" <c.dreike at verizon.net>
To: type2 at type2.com
Subject: Re: [T2] Rust, Noise, Heat
Message-ID: <1b665dec-86f6-b4ee-c9f3-9361fe8e18af at verizon.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

BTW,
If the Great Stuff fails to stick to a surface, it wasn't well cleaned.

Chris


On 11/6/2016 4:47 PM, Bob Pratt wrote:
> Has anyone attempted to try the changes found at http://www.type2.com/library/heat/Engine.html?
> Now that Myles is back on the road and the New England weather is changing, I am looking into doing something about the noise and lack of heat.
> Does anyone on the list have any thoughts about using Great Stuff spray insulation?
> Again, thanks for any insight.
>
> Bob
> _______________________________________________
> type2 mailing list
> type2 at type2.com
> https://www.type2.com/lists/type2/listinfo



------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2016 20:05:57 -0800
From: Andy McKinley <airhedz at gmail.com>
To: "C. Dreike" <c.dreike at verizon.net>
Cc: type 2 <type2 at type2.com>
Subject: Re: [T2] Rust, Noise, Heat
Message-ID:
	<CAKVRMScdpWT5GbO21YUELn+wfUpj5aOU+EK0qLrViS7PoJwxUA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

When I installed my dynamat I first cleaned everything, then I warmed the
surfaces with a heat gun as I applied the dynamat. No moisture under there,
and excellent adhesion.

On Nov 6, 2016 7:33 PM, "c.dreike" <c.dreike at verizon.net> wrote:
>
> BTW,
> If the Great Stuff fails to stick to a surface, it wasn't well cleaned.
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> On 11/6/2016 4:47 PM, Bob Pratt wrote:
>>
>> Has anyone attempted to try the changes found at
http://www.type2.com/library/heat/Engine.html?
>> Now that Myles is back on the road and the New England weather is
changing, I am looking into doing something about the noise and lack of
heat.
>> Does anyone on the list have any thoughts about using Great Stuff spray
insulation?
>> Again, thanks for any insight.
>>
>> Bob
>> _______________________________________________
>> type2 mailing list
>> type2 at type2.com
>> https://www.type2.com/lists/type2/listinfo
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> type2 mailing list
> type2 at type2.com
> https://www.type2.com/lists/type2/listinfo


------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2016 09:12:48 -0500
From: MUTS <muts at verizon.net>
To: type2 at type2.com
Subject: Re: [T2] Rust, Noise, Heat
Message-ID: <7f757b31-119d-f1e8-1f1c-fa78985d21b3 at verizon.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

"Not a troll" disclaimer.
It is my understanding thqt polyisocyuranate foam (Great Stuff) does not 
seal out moisture, it traps it and rust will increase.  Same with Bondo- 
it absorbs moisture. Mice get into the hollow beam under the rear hatch 
and their corrosive urine will cause rust from the inside.  My engine 
rebuilder filled it with foam back in 2004 and it has still rusted 
through leaving foam in place.

On 11/6/2016 10:18 PM, c.dreike wrote:
  The key here is to prevent any steel surface from getting wet
 > and staying so over any long period as rust will develop. Any bare steel
 > or painted steel surface is prone to having condensation develop on it
 > at night or during cold weather. (Think warm bodies and steamy breath.)
 > The Great Stuff should seal out moisture and prevent condensation.

MUTSÂ  = Michael's Ultimate Thumb Saver oboe, clarinet support
93 Chevy Roadtrek 210P
78 VW Westfalia Camper


------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2016 09:52:39 -0500 (EST)
From: accessys at smart.net
To: MUTS <muts at verizon.net>
Cc: type2 at type2.com
Subject: Re: [T2] Rust, Noise, Heat
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.1611070951440.1618 at cygnus.smart.net>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed


like cancer. rust will continue unless removed or to a lesser extent 
encapsulated (which foam does not normally do)

Bob


On Mon, 7 Nov 2016, MUTS wrote:

> Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2016 09:12:48 -0500
> From: MUTS <muts at verizon.net>
> To: type2 at type2.com
> Subject: Re: [T2] Rust, Noise, Heat
> 
> "Not a troll" disclaimer.
> It is my understanding thqt polyisocyuranate foam (Great Stuff) does not seal 
> out moisture, it traps it and rust will increase.  Same with Bondo- it 
> absorbs moisture. Mice get into the hollow beam under the rear hatch and 
> their corrosive urine will cause rust from the inside.  My engine rebuilder 
> filled it with foam back in 2004 and it has still rusted through leaving foam 
> in place.
>
> On 11/6/2016 10:18 PM, c.dreike wrote:
> The key here is to prevent any steel surface from getting wet
>> and staying so over any long period as rust will develop. Any bare steel
>> or painted steel surface is prone to having condensation develop on it
>> at night or during cold weather. (Think warm bodies and steamy breath.)
>> The Great Stuff should seal out moisture and prevent condensation.
>
> MUTSÂ  = Michael's Ultimate Thumb Saver oboe, clarinet support
> 93 Chevy Roadtrek 210P
> 78 VW Westfalia Camper
> _______________________________________________
> type2 mailing list
> type2 at type2.com
> https://www.type2.com/lists/type2/listinfo
>




------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2016 09:53:25 -0800
From: "c.dreike" <c.dreike at verizon.net>
To: type2 at type2.com
Subject: Re: [T2] Rust, Noise, Heat
Message-ID: <3d441cf3-2a93-7b19-d5a9-e643000245d9 at verizon.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

I agree. Gotta kill the rust otherwise it will continue.
I have had good results with both Loctite Extend and Picklex. I'm sure 
there are other great products out there.

Chris

On 11/7/2016 6:52 AM, accessys at smart.net wrote:
>
> like cancer. rust will continue unless removed or to a lesser extent 
> encapsulated (which foam does not normally do)
>
> Bob
>
>
> On Mon, 7 Nov 2016, MUTS wrote:
>
>> Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2016 09:12:48 -0500
>> From: MUTS <muts at verizon.net>
>> To: type2 at type2.com
>> Subject: Re: [T2] Rust, Noise, Heat
>>
>> "Not a troll" disclaimer.
>> It is my understanding thqt polyisocyuranate foam (Great Stuff) does 
>> not seal out moisture, it traps it and rust will increase. Same with 
>> Bondo- it absorbs moisture. Mice get into the hollow beam under the 
>> rear hatch and their corrosive urine will cause rust from the 
>> inside.  My engine rebuilder filled it with foam back in 2004 and it 
>> has still rusted through leaving foam in place.
>>
>> On 11/6/2016 10:18 PM, c.dreike wrote:
>> The key here is to prevent any steel surface from getting wet
>>> and staying so over any long period as rust will develop. Any bare 
>>> steel
>>> or painted steel surface is prone to having condensation develop on it
>>> at night or during cold weather. (Think warm bodies and steamy breath.)
>>> The Great Stuff should seal out moisture and prevent condensation.
>>
>> MUTSÂ  = Michael's Ultimate Thumb Saver oboe, clarinet support
>> 93 Chevy Roadtrek 210P
>> 78 VW Westfalia Camper
>> _______________________________________________
>> type2 mailing list
>> type2 at type2.com
>> https://www.type2.com/lists/type2/listinfo
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> type2 mailing list
> type2 at type2.com
> https://www.type2.com/lists/type2/listinfo



------------------------------

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